See https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/automatic-conversion-google-mail-accounts-oauth20 that has discussion on where and how with cookies.

Hi Matt, Thanks for the link, but....multiple issues. Note that the javascript section says: Do ≡ > Preferences > General > Config Editor. There is no 'config editor' that I can find in the General section.

Also, in the 'check if the proper authentication tokens have been saved, it says: Do ≡ > Settings > Privacy & Security > Passwords> Saved Passwords There is no 'settings' option in the menu block that comes up from the 3bars icon.

From a different source, I saw mention of not only changing to the oath2 setting under each account's server settings tab (had been done by me a long time ago), but to do the same under the 'outgoing server (SMTP) tab. I did this, but it hasn't helped.

I thought that maybe I need to delete/reenter my passwords after making the change. Searching for 'password change' on the Mozilla>Thunderbird support page brings up https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/password-manager-remember-delete-change-tb which tells me to: "At the top of the Thunderbird window, click the Tools menu and select Options, or click the menu button fx57menu and choose Options." There is no 'options' option under tools.

I cannot find a way to bring up the 'option's' page, in order to change my password. Yes, I've done it in the past, but the current version of Tbird seems to have hidden the page even more effectively than in the past.

On a broader note, this seems to be a long-ongoing issue with Tbird and its docs. Stuff gets moved around in the menu systems, or gets renamed, and the docs don't reflect the changes. For people like me who aren't 'power users', it's a great program until it gets 'improved'. Then it's a pain in the backside for hours, or days, or even weeks, until enough people publicly complain and someone posts the new method of getting stuff working again.

Major frustration level at this point; if I have to go to the (truly horrible) gmail web page to send emails anyway, there seems to be little point in continuing to use Tbird.

re :There is no 'config editor' that I can find in the General section.

In General section - scroll to the bottom and click on 'Config Editor' button - it opens ina new tab see image.

re :Also, in the 'check if the proper authentication tokens have been saved, it says: Do ≡ > Settings > Privacy & Security > Passwords> Saved Passwords There is no 'settings' option in the menu block that comes up from the 3bars icon.

correct - Article needs correcting Do ≡ > Preferences > Privacy & Security Passwords section click on 'Saved Passwords'

re :I cannot find a way to bring up the 'option's' page,

'Options' has been replaced by the word 'Preferences'.

Using the top 'Menu Bar' toolbar : 'Tools' > 'Preferences'

Using the 'Menu app icon' located on 'Mail Toolbar' toolbar: click on 'Menu app icon ≡ ' and select 'Preferences'

Basic instructions for using OAuth2: You will need to make changes to Authentication Method. Thunderbird has made alterations so now both POP and IMAP accounts can use OAuth2 for gmail.

Select 'Menu app icon' > 'Preferences' > 'Privacy & Security ' Under 'Web Content'

• Select 'Accept cookies from sites'

It may also be a good idea to make exception:

• Click on 'Exceptions..' button
• Enter: https://accounts.google.com
• Set to 'Allow'
• click on 'Save Changes'

Now make changes to Account Settings:

• Right click on gmail pop/imap account name in Folder Pane and select 'Settings'

This opens the Account Settings in new tab The pop/imap account name should be selected Look bottom right for Outgoing Server (SMTP)

• Click on 'Edit Server _SMTP' button
• Set Authentication Method : OAuth2
• Click on OK

Now set the incoming authentication:

• select 'Server Settings' for gmail account
• Set Authentication Method : OAuth2

Exit Thunderbird and wait a few moments for background processes to complete Start Thunderbird

Gmail will prompt you to enter gmail email address and normal password you use to access webmail account. Follow instructions. It will ask this to allow Thunderbird to access server.

An Oauth token will get stored in Thunderbird - same place as passwords and from then onwards Thunderbird will use it to access server.

Please note: Do you use any program that cleans up files like CCleaner or Wisecleaner or even an Anti-Virus product can do this? You do not want any of these products cleaning up anything in Thunderbird profile folders as they can remove session data, cookies, passwords etc. If yes you need to make your Thunderbird profile folder exempt from access.

Thanks for the 'scavenger hunt clue' on the location of cofig editor. :-) I did finally manage to find the password manager, once I realized that 'options' is now 'preferences'.

I did finally get everything working again, though I can't define the exact sequence that got everything working.

As I said, weeks ago everything quit working (both getting and sending email, for two different gmail accounts), then after a day or two, both started working again, with no changes by me other than the computer getting shut down & booted up again the next day. Then a few days ago, both accounts started failing again (*might* have coincided with the download & installation of the latest version), and when I checked the accounts' oath2 settings, they'd been changed from oath2 to just password. I fixed that for both accounts, and they both started getting mail normally, but I was still getting password errors from both accounts when trying to send mail.

While scrolling through various how-to sites looking for clues, one mentioned an outgoing mail server (or similar language). I then did some digging in the menus, and found under preferences>account settings (and then scrolling all the way to the bottom) 'outgoing server (smtp)'. Digging into *that*, I found that the accounts were not set to oath2. I then went through various permutations of changing the setting, deleting passwords (and oath2 tokens) without getting consistent results. I *think* that what fixed everything was deleting all the passwords/tokens, a shutdown/reboot, and then going through gmail's re authorization process to let gmail know it's ok to let Tbird access gmail.

Stuff is working now.

Perhaps the help file needs to include the fact that that oath2 setting has to be done in both the regular account settings and in the outgoing server settings.

A final note; those oath2 settings had obviously been correct in the past, and *I* never changed them (took me days just to find them again). Any chance that Tbird updates are breaking settings?

Thanks to both of you for the help; it helped point me in the right direction and kept me plugging away at the issue.

Can I mark my own answer as the 'solved' answer? ;-)

I just wasted a full two hours running in circles trying to follow the recommendations of the "experts" above I know NOTHING of emails (and plan to stay ignorant)

The answer is in a reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/v7ziud/how_i_fixed_oauth_problems_in_a_tb_profile_with_2/ "The gmail popups won't let me enter passwords... it just refreshes over and over with the email account box. Yes the accounts are still valid and working."

Go to Thunderbird -> Preferences -> Privacy and Security In the Web Content section:

ACCEPT ALL COOKIES - it is as yet unclear whether should be only all third party ect. and how long to keep them

This IMMEDIATELY worked and all of my mail since June 6th downloaded

The answer is in a reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunderbird/comments/v7ziud/how_i_fixed_oauth_problems_in_a_tb_profile_with_2/

The link tells you exactly the same information given above.

Go to Thunderbird -> Preferences -> Privacy and Security

If this relates to a specific OS then please remember to state what OS you are using as then it will helpful to others.

Yeah, the cookies thing might have been b..022's problem, but cookies aren't *the* solution; my cookies parameter was already set properly.

My ultimate fix was some version of flushing the passwords/tokens, and changing the outgoing server settings to oath2 *for both accounts*, and then going through gmail's authentication process again.

edit: I should also point out that this was a new issue; Tbird had been working just fine, with no alterations from me, when stuff suddenly quit working about a week ago.

BTW, how do we get tips/upgrade requests to the support guys for this forum? The email notifications I get for responses to this thread don't include any hyperlinks to the forum thread itself, and the search box in the forum doesn't seem to do anything if you search for the thread title.

Yeah, the cookies thing might have been b..022's problem, but cookies aren't *the* solution; my cookies parameter was already set properly. My ultimate fix was some version of flushing the passwords/tokens, and changing the outgoing server settings to oath2 *for both accounts*, and then going through gmail's authentication process again. edit: I should also point out that this was a new issue; Tbird had been working just fine, with no alterations from me, when stuff suddenly quit working about a week ago.

That was because gmail changed what it would accept for authentication. They (GMAIL) are switching of the use of 'Normal Password' and access via what gmail used to call 'less secure apps'. Everyone will be required to use Athentication Method: OAuth2 or they have to start using 2 step verfication and generating an app specific password to use instead of normal password. As Thunderbird is fully up to speed on providing OAuth2 for both pop and imap, it means you do not have to use 2 step verfication nor generate an app specific password. To use OAuth means you have to allow cookies so an oauth token can get sent by gmail to Thunderbird and stored in same place as passwords. From then onwards Thunderbird will use that token to access server.

So you had to make those changes in Thunderbird gmail account in order to get access.

Most people just need to allow cookies and change Authentication to OAuth and then restart Thunderbird. Then gmail does the authentication process.

A few people have encountered additional requirements with clearing old passwords or old files and some discover they need to temporarilly switch off any local server they are using.

BTW, how do we get tips/upgrade requests to the support guys for this forum? The email notifications I get for responses to this thread don't include any hyperlinks to the forum thread itself, and the search box in the forum doesn't seem to do anything if you search for the thread title.

Viewing this received email in HTML - The email you get from forum will contain a blue 'Post a Reply' button below the message part, If you click on that button it takes you directly to this question.

Viewing this received email in Plain Text will remove all formatting and just show the hyperlink which will look like this example: See the comment: https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1379468?utm_campaign=questions-reply&utm_source=notification&utm_medium=email#answer-1512243

Change how to see email eg: HTML or Plain Text : View > Message Body as

Please note in addition to this you can use your own profile to gain access to all questions you create - perhaps store it as a bookmark. How to get access to profile : I've provided a quick link below for you.

• https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/user/rv7charlie

But if you are already in the forum question - look top right and you should see your username - hover over it to see options eg: View Profile or sub of that 'My Questions'

Also if you right click on a username and select open in new tab, you can view some profile information. eg: I posted a comment, so you could right click on 'Toad-Hall' and open in new tab to see info.

I appreciate the additional info. I'm replying on a different computer at the moment without TB installed (using gmail's web access); I'll check on the plain text vs html setting when I get back to the house. FWIW, viewing the notification emails in gmail's web browser yields the same lack of built-in hyperlink to the referenced thread. Any added hyperlinks do show up, but there's no pointer to the actual thread. I did find the link in my profile to my posts; that's how I've been getting back to the thread to post updates. Other forum notification emails have made me lazy; just click the link & go straight to the thread. ;-)

On the OAuth2 issue, my initial (current) issue was no access; changing to OAuth2 in the account settings cured getting emails, but I still couldn't *send* emails. I had to go through cleaning up passwords & adding an outgoing server OAuth2 setting for each account, to get the send function working again. Unfortunately, I didn't document each thing I did as I did it, (bad form on my part), but I'm pretty sure I tried simply changing to OAuth2 in the outgoing server settings and reloading TB, and that didn't work.

Odd thing is, I thought the OAuth2 thing started a couple of TB revisions earlier (weeks/months ago), and I've been operating without any issues until a few days ago. Did gmail just recently start enforcing the policy?

re :Other forum notification emails have made me lazy; just click the link & go straight to the thread. ;-)

In Thunderbird, it is exactly the same - click on the 'Post a Reply' blue button that is in the email. BTW: If you hover over that button you will see the http info displayed in the bottom status bar just like any link.

As a test I redirected email to my gmail account and viewed via webmail. Identical to Thunderbird. Hover over the blue button which says 'Post a Reply - link info in Bottom Status bar . I've created an image as it explains everything visually.

In gmail you can also see the source view - After opening email - click on the 'More' icon (3 vertical dots) to see menu and select 'Show original', which is the same as viewing the source in Thunderbird. If a plain text version was included then you can read it, but it's not as user friendly as true plain text. Gmail do not do a plain text option to read emails.

re :Odd thing is, I thought the OAuth2 thing started a couple of TB revisions earlier (weeks/months ago), and I've been operating without any issues until a few days ago. Did gmail just recently start enforcing the policy?

Gmail has decided that using 'Normal Password' via what they called 'less secure apps' is going to be switched off. This left the user with a few options. Either start using gmail webmail OR use an email client which offers OAuth2 Authentication for Imap and Pop accounts (eg: Thunderbird) OR set up 2 step verification in gmail and generate an app specific password which you use instead of the normal password when logging on via Thunderbird to verify.

OAuth2 has been available for IMAP in Thunderbird for a while. Recently, changes were made in Thunderbird so even gmail POP accounts could use OAuth2. These changes were done because of the password policy being forced upon all email clients by Gmail.

So some people do not need to do anything, some people need to change cookie settings and Authentication for both incoming and outgoing. A few people discover additional requirement like removal of original stored password or they have experienced some corruption of files which need resettings or discover they need to switch off localhost eg: Apache software in order to get the initial verification to work.

If it is just a case of switching on cookies then it is an easy setting to change and only takes a few minutes to do (even seconds if you know your way around the Preferences), but others may look like they have same issue, but in reality people have different OS and set up, they run different software, sometimes you have to find out what is stopping a connection even when settings are correct. So one fix does not fix all.

See info : https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255?hl=en

Quote below Less secure apps & your Google Account

To help keep your account secure, from May 30, 2022, ​​Google no longer supports the use of third-party apps or devices which ask you to sign in to your Google Account using only your username and password.

Important: This deadline does not apply to Google Workspace or Google Cloud Identity customers. The enforcement date for these customers will be announced on the Workspace blog at a later date.

re: the gmail policy change dated May 30, the date makes some sense relative to my problems starting. I don't recall getting any sort of 'push' notification from gmail about the changes, but I easily could have overlooked it. Just glad I've got TB fully functional again.

On the reply button issue... Hmmmm. Interesting screenshot; let show you mine. -) This shot is from within gmail's web access; I'm in my shop again without TB loaded on the computer. Note that the only reply button is the green 'mark it as solved'. There are several other blue hyperlinks, but none that I can find say 'post a reply'. Any thought on why my notification emails are formatted differently? Could it be because I was the one that asked the original question? if so, that seems to be a bit of a bug, since I suspect that many threads, like this one, require a bit of back&forth before a solution is found.

re:So some people do not need to do anything, some people need to change cookie settings and Authentication for both incoming and outgoing. I suspect that this is what 'bit' me; nothing in the TB doc dealing with OAuth2 mentions needing to change both the regular account setting and the outgoing server setting. Back in the bad old days when setting up email access was totally manual, the instructional help files were quite detailed and thorough (and if you followed them, stuff worked). Maybe as things have gotten more automated (and there seem to be more variations for installations, as you mentioned) it's getting trickier to keep the docs completely accurate.

Again, thanks to you for your support help, and to all the people at Mozilla that make it possible for for non-programmers like me to use the 'interwebs'. Charlie

re :Could it be because I was the one that asked the original question?

I would say yes. As I'm always answering to someone else's question, it seems I would not see same as you.

What do you see when you hover over the text 'this does not solve my problem' ? Does it show the same hyperlink info as my image in bottom status bar ?

see image below - you may need to look in forum and click on the image to enlarge. If yes, then click on it.

That's apparently the correct hyperlink; clicking it does take me directly to this thread. Silly me, expecting something other than binary choices from a computer. ;-) I'm primed to see a simple 'reply' button that the binary choice of 'solved' vs 'didn't solve' didn't seem to apply to ongoing discussions. I think we can finally put this thread to bed; I'll mark it 'solved'.

Many thanks for your help, in what seems to have grown multiple tentacles.