T-bird search is so poor when Eudora search was simple and fast and great
I ran Eudora for decades. Finally at the start of 2021 I migrated to T-Bird thru the long process of starting with old T-bird and importing old Eudora emails and then working up in versions. Now running 91.4.1 . I use it professionally and have many clients.
In other words I have been running T-bird every day for a year.
My basic issue here is the Search messages functionality has improved a wee little bit thru the newer version but it still is so crippled and lacking. As one user posted in frustration, (paraphrasing) "I do not want to know how to do all sorts of tweeks and cntl-key stuff. I just want to select search and only type one thing in and see EVERY email that has it IN ANY PART OF THE EMAIL". I am the same way and usually that is fine and I do not normally need to refine the search.
But that is so hard to achieve. Another user I saw posted in frustration with the lack of the "any header" search option and the response from t-bird folk is just to add all the to, from , subject, body things in the dialog. REALY?
Then the next step is what email folders am I interested in? Another awkward thing in t-bird. After a year I still cannot get what I want. I hate the format. The "display as list" thing is weird. And it is just returning false info on some searches.
To find a good example of search run Eudora 7 search. One tab gives you quick and easy control over the folders and the other quick and easy control of the search params with results. Super easy to get specific with searches. Thus a novice beginner can use and a proficient expert can use.
So why cannot the t-bird developer folk use Eudora search as a template for a nice search within the t-bird product? JUST START FROM SCRATCH!
SEARCH IS SO CRITICAL TO ME THAT NOW I RUN BOTH EUDORA AND T-BIRD ALL THE TIME SO THAT WHEN I NEED TO SEARCH I USE EUDORA: CRAZY!!!
So get the picture here? We need a decent search like Eudora used to have.
All Replies (6)
I started trying to answer your question, but I really have no idea if you are talking about
Global search (ctrl+K), User documentation https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/global-search Quick search (Ctrl+Shift+K) User Documentation https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/quick-filter-toolbar Message search (Ctrl+Shift+F) Which has been in Thunderbird I think from the beginning. Not much to say about it, it is slower, but the searches can be saved as a folder for future reference. Find in this email (Ctrl+F) Same as find on this page for Firefox.
The "display as list" thing is weird. And it is just returning false info on some searches.
IF it will not open emails it sounds like your index is not upto date or corrupt. See https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/rebuilding-global-database
Note that allowing anti virus programs to scan in the profile folder is one fairly common cause of corruption of indexes, both global and per folder.
However before you reply be aware that the way Eudora did it means nothing to anyone but you. I have no idea how it searched and I realty do not want to learn. Eudora dropped off it's perch over a decade ago. I am skilled in enough dead technologies now. I do not need to learn another and google is not helpful for something so old.
I used Eudora for about 2 weeks back in the early 1990s (version 2 I think it might have been) and decided is was a bit awkward and moved on. I settled on Thunderbird because it did mail threading, it was slow but mail threading was important to me.
So why cannot the t-bird developer folk use Eudora search as a template for a nice search within the t-bird product?
It is only in the past year or two that the Eudora code has been open sourced. But I doubt anyone but an addon author would be looking there to it to get ideas.
I too think the faceted search could do with improvement, but your description on refining the search criteria and what the faceted search in global search does in real time sounds about the same to me. Faceted search displays People, Folders, accounts Mailing lists and tags that it has found in the results for you to refine your search, as well as offering a date limiter by clicking on the timeline across the top. .
I just want to be able to right click the result and ask to see the mail in it's conversation. Something I can do by clicking the "show results as list and then right clicking. But I would like to remove the middle step.
Thunderbird does not and probably never will offer access to raw HTML or message source for searching, just as it does not for filtering. If you can not find your emails by contents sender tabs and storage locations, there is basically nothing in the source that will make the message more identifiable. Except the garbage Eudora allowed to be added to headers
I think you need to have a look at the open bugs for search. There a 317 open bugs, mostly enhancement requests, but if you have an enhancement request that has not already been filed, please file yours. Just remember "the Eudora way" means nothing to anyone. So you have to actually elucidate what you are talking about.
hi Matt,
I have spent over an hour pounding the various search aspects of TB.
I spent some focused time again with Global Search and I still come away scratching my head. I guess Global Search is the "Hail Mary" of TB searching when you are frustrated with Search Messages. Its results format and behaviors is confusing. The article on it Matt that you linked to , says near the top, "Global search is enabled by default. (It can be disabled on the Advanced panel in the Thunderbird options.) " . So I cannot find an "Advanced panel". Looking for help is like this with TB.
The filter message can only be used on one mail box at a time right? Not useful for me.
But Search Messages is mysterious. The more and more I pounded it, the more and more it started behaving properly. I wrote up a bunch of bugs but as I continued to use it, the bugs started not to happen. Yeah. Search strings that would return nothing re now returning stuff and in all the mailboxes they are supposed to be in. Wacky weird. You mention indexing problems. Maybe this is one?
Even with the improving behavior, it is still lacking compared to Eudora search and I also wrote up a piece on Eudora search but I am guessing it will fall on deaf ears. I think a whole lotta people have and continue to migrate from Eudora to TB and so Eudora should be of particular interest but not gonna beat a dead horse.
Anyway, wasted too much time on this today. To anyone out there who has given up on TB searching. Just make some time to use it over and over and over and maybe you will be lucky like me.
There are different methods of Search and you use the most appropriate as per your needs.
Quick Filter Bar filters and it's search are used on a selected folder. The search is limited to 'Sender', 'Recipients', 'Subject' and 'Body', so it is a simplified search.
Global Search is used to search everything, but some folders can be made exempt. Typically, you may find Junk/Spam or Trash may not be included. Search results can be refined by using the filters in the left pane (left click to choose refined option) or using the timeline filter. Once you have a selection - For those who like a list which looks more like the Thread Pane - click on 'Show results as list' which will open in a new tab, so preserving the original search.
How to check if a folder is exempt?
- Right click on folder and select 'Properties'
- select checkbox 'Include messages in this folder in Global Search' to enable it.
If a Global Search is producing a load of potential results but when selected they do not exist, then it is possible those emails have been deleted - folder index may be corrupted or Global Database may need a rebuild. As per info provided by Matt.
Menu app icon > Find > Search Messages
This is a really useful method as it has a wider potential.
Search on specified account or folder in an account. The search can be performed on specifics in the email headers or body. You can set one or more conditions.
You can also save the results as a 'Search Folder' which displays in the Folder Pane like a normal folder, but it is a virtual folder.
Once you have a 'Search Folder', you can edit the range of search to include specific folders from various mail accounts or even edit the conditions to modify the search results. When new mail arrives in any of the selected folders, it auto updates results. Edit by right click on folder and select 'Properties'.
So this may take a bit longer to set up, but if you perform repeated same type searches then it becomes a handy tool saving you a lot of time. If you have a selection of related emails that are stored in different folders or even mail accounts, but you need to gather them in one place for whatever reason, this method is the one to use.
I just wanted to clarify that while the scope of items that Global Search works on may be global, it does not include header names or content.
One aspect of TB search that still hampers me is the inability to search on the presence/absence of a header.
@libcub1 I started a thread about global search here. https://thunderbird.topicbox.com/groups/ux/T71fa1de104e34d0b/global-search You are more than welcome to contribute ideas for change, or actively file enhancement requested in bugzilla. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Thunderbird&component=Search
Before filing bugs however be mindful of what is already requested. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?product=Thunderbird&component=Search&resolution=---&list_id=16028069
Basically a user support forum is not a place to ask for change, not if you want anyone involved in decision making to actually read what you say at least.
Agree 'Global Search' does not offer it, but 'Find' > 'Search Messages' does offer it.
If you want to search on a header then use the 'Menu app icon' > 'Find' > select 'Search Messages' on a specific account.
As I mentioned. Set it up as a search folder and then add all accounts and folders you require. From then onwards, you would only need to edit the 'header' or content field via properties. So in effect, you will now have a 'global search' option preset to operate as required.